there are other things, marketing, taxes, things like that. we don't know the cause but we know one thing, the oil companies fully integrated make more money when the price of gasoline is higher. so, it's certainly more than coincidental that the price of gasoline stays higher longer than the price of oil. there's no evidence to show that there's something -- that there's a legitimate effort by oil companies to keep gasoline prices higher. it is certainly suspicious and certainly profitable for the oil companies. >> sterling, what's going to get gas prices down? that's all people care about. they keep hearing oil prices are going down, yet they drive to the pump and pay $4.50 or $5 a gallon? >> well, you can work three end of it. you can work it, supply. you can work on demand. and we're doing both of those. and you can work it volatility, which is a huge, huge factor. as i said, gas -- most of the retailers in my area are independent retailers. they don't lock in long-term or can't lock in long-term oil/gasoline contracts. >> but how much --